Peggy Cook Tape 3? 1
Q: Now we're talking about your marriage and saying what a
great difference it was to your life, before you got married. Your
interests during your marriage were your gardening and what else?
A: Raising kids, mainly leaning on my husband, setting up card
parties for him, that kind of thing.
Q: How did you feel about all that?
Q: Did you feel it was your duty?
A: Well first of all I felt it was evil. Because that's the
way grandma and grandpa were. But it was my duty, perid.
Q: You never questioned it?
A: No. I never questioned it verbally to him, no.
Q: How about your sex life, was he a brutal man.
A: No not at all.
Q: He became impe4eat, so you didn t have to worry about it.
A: True, you named it right there.
Q: Came you tell me something about your kids, growing up,
how did you like them, did you enjoy raising them.
A: I totally enjoyed raising children. And having them raise me.
They taught me alot of what a family is, which I didn t know before.
Q: And who was the disciplinairian?
A: I was.
Q: Ok, your husband didn't really aXSK^KXKXKg take part, it wasn't
the man s place to I bet.
A: HXSX^XSKS He believed his place was to spoiling them with
gifts and that was it. He was a beautiful father to infants. When they
were beyond that it became individuals in their right, he couldn t be
bothered with them. And didn t bother with them.
Peggy Cook 2
Q: Is that maybe because they were threatening to him.
A: Oh yeah, I m sure of it.
Q: How did your children get along with him?
A: They got along just fine up until they became teenagers. Then
everything they did was wrong. And I mean, and they usually had a
sexual conotation to it. He was really hung up. Third base with it,
way out with it. But, up until they were 14 or 15 year olds, it was
ok.
Q: And then what happend?
A: Well, they would have to listen to long _ you know
from him about don t you get a girl in trouble or don't you let a boy
touch you, or just on and on and on, until it got just, to where they
would never, he was gone three days at a time because of his job, fire
chief, but they would never mention dates or anything when their
really
father was home. It consequently cut him out of the family circle. Then
he would come back to me I never know what'g going on in this family.
It was a vicious, vicious thing that went on.
Q: What was your role in this
A: Peace maker.
Q: XKXKg Seems like in a situation like that, between a rock
and a hard place, you are defending one side the other side. Well
these are alot of stresses, what did the stresses do to you. Do you
think. How
A: I think I handled them all very well, until I met a woman whom
I became interested in, my oldest son went to __university he
went on a scholarship, he was a brilliant boy. I began staying away
from the home. And then I began getting flack from him and then the
Peggy Cook 3
stress really got hard on me. From my husband. Because I began to
feel guilty about myself. Prior to that I wasn t feeling guilty
about myself. You can take alot of stress if you're not feeling guilty.
If you re feeling guilty and you add on stress, then you got a problem.
Q: What age were you when you met this woman?
A: 38
Q: Ok, you were 38, the next year your husband then virtually
locked you up.
A: That's just about right.
Q: Where did you meet this woman. Had you ever, what did you
like about sexuality and being a lesbian when you re grown up.
A: I never thought about it.
Q: Ok, it wasn t something that, well did you feel when you see
women that you were possibly attracted to them, would you suppress that
or
A: I don't recall ever being attracted to women.
Q: How did this affair come about?
A: A bowling team. And she said to somebody, that's how I met
her. And she asked me to dinner. And I went to her house for dinner.
I was shocked. Typical thing, I was shocked. I was very shocked.
Q: That she came out and told you that she was interested in you.
A: Yes.
Q: As a lover, and your reaction was
A: Shock and disbelief. And I ran right home.
Q: Did you?
A: Yep
Q: And then what happened?
A: To tell you how naive I was, the next time I went back I took
Peggy Cook 4
my bible. I was going to straighten her out. I was really naive.
She met me at the door and she said that if you bring that in you can't
come, I won't see you anymore. So I made a big decision, I put my bible
in the trunk of my car and I went in. And that really changed my life.
Guilt, anixeties, it was tough.
Q: Why did you go back to see her?
A: I liked her. I was attracted to her. Simple as that.
Q: So there was something awakening in, and could you define
this as something that you did not feel about your husband.
A: She made me feel good about myself. Probably the first person
that I;ever talked to who thought I had a brain. To begin with.
She is the one who encouraged me to go to college. She and my oldest
son. She was a social worker, she was a professor at the University
of Washington.
Q: Is she alive?
A; She s in California.
Q: How long did you know her, or are you still writing.
A: Oh we talk maybe once a year on the telephone. But we don't
write. It got really bad.
Q: What happened?
A: Oh he went to the university of Washington and tried to get
her job, __ . It really got bad. They had a hearing
with the lawyers from the University of Washington, and I had to go
appear, it was just, it was terrible. She wasn t fired but she was
asked to make other arrangements for her, so she went to California.
She wanted me to get a divorce, and she would put the kids in school
she made good money, and I said I Kffl32[ can t do that.
Peggy Cook 5
Q: Well how did she get a job in California working, was that
difficult.
A: That s where she came from originally. She had a lot of
contacts.
Q: And her being a lesbian did not
A: No, she was in charge of job corp. For young women,she was
in charge of nearly 1600 girls.
Q: Was she pretty much open and out
A: As far as I know. But you see, where this happened with us
was a small town. Port Townsend, very closed community.
Q: She was teaching down her
A: Yes, she was out of the University of Washington, that s when
they were setting up Fort Warden as a school for deprived children.
She was setting that up and living there at that time.
Q: What was her field or
A: She was a social worker.
Q: So your husband, did you tell him, how did he find out that
this was going on.
A: I never did tell him.
Q: How often were you seeing her? I m sorry.
A: That's what it s for. Oh at the bowling alley, then probably
twice a week, to three times a week.
Q: And the whole time you were feeling anxiety
A: Oh yeah.
Q: Was your relationship sexual at this time?
A: After about four months.
Q: What was that like.
Peggy Cook 6
A: All I can say is that it was the first time I enjoyed a
sexual experience. It really was.
Q: Were you very frightened
A: Terrified. Absolutely terrified.
Q: But she helped you through it
A: Yeah right.
Q: Ok then you were pretty much with this woman, having a steady
love affair, and how did your husband find out.
A: Well, I think people began talking to him. I don't know who.
And he began coming over when I was there. That kind of thing. And
then one day he told me what I was. And began dragging me
to different preachers and then finally to Stellicom. To straighten
me out.
Q: How long had you known her at this time?
A: Little over a year I guess.
Q: What was Stellicom like?
A: Frightening. They kept me there a week, all I did was cry.
No help at all, nobody would even talk to me, I just sat there and
cried. It was terrible. This tells you how insensitive he was. He
had all kinds of insurance, he could have sent me to something that wasn't
at the state level.
Q: As far as Stellicom is, have you heard about Western Washington
A: Yes.
Q: And the woman who was an actress who was in there?
A:
Q: How would you compare Stellicom to that institution?
A: Well on a scale of 1 to 10, Frances was 10+. And I would
say that Stellicom was about 7.
Peggy Cook 7
Q: So it was worse.
A: No,
Q: The other way
A: A little better. But as far as any kind of psychatric help,
or support, there was none. It was a holding pen, that s exactly what it
was.
.\\{\^
Q: Was it ^i±-tUy , conditions
A: It was filthy . And
Q: And it was probably very frightening to be thrust in
A: It was terrifying. All kinds of people. It was terrible.
Q: You stayed there a week.
A: I became very silent, withdrawn, and all I did was cry.
Q: And there was no one, no professional who came to
A: Not a one. The day I got out I went up to this desk they ve got
there and I said I want to go home. They said you can't.
And I said why not, and they said it was because you were committed.
And I said alright, then you find you committed me, and tell them I
want to come home. And I 11 behave. I had to get out.
Q: So your husband committed you? And he had that right?
A: Yeah sure.
Q: And it was a week?
A; I think it was nine days.
Q: He came a picked you up. And what happened.
A: Well before he came to pick me up, I think it was a psychatrist
came to talk to me and wanted to know if I thought I could go home. And I
said yeah. He said, do you know what your problem is, and I said I
know what he says it is. He said he would be there at 3:00 and I went
home. That was my care.
Peggy Cook 8
Q: Because you promised to be good.
A: To behave.
Q: Behave.
A: Which didn't last.
Q: What happened then after that?
A: I cried along time without weeping. Weeks, I mean weeks. And
then I began seeing Barbara again.
Q: And what happened?
A: I guess he gave up on me.
Q: Wasn't she frigthened to, ok when did Barbara go down to
California then?
A: 1964, 1965. The dates I'm not sure on.
Q: You only knew her for about two years?
A: Yeah right.
Q: And she had to go down to Calfornia. When did all this with
the episode with the lawyers occur? After you came out of Stellicom.
A: After I came out.
Q: Ok,
A: He also went around our community, I think he got 38 or 39
letters, tried to get from these different people. As to my character.
Q: That was bad?
A; That was bad you know. Then these people, I didn t know he
was doing that, these people began coming to me and saying look this is
what he wants, and we've told him no. And they began writing me letters
for me to use. And it was just terrible.
Q: What was he going to do with the letters?
A: He was going to take them to those lawyers that were
Peggy Cook 9
Q: And then what, what was he
A: I don t know what he thought, I thought, maybe he was looking
for another cruxifiction. I have no idea. It was terrible.
Q: So how did Barbara react to all of this?
A: Well first of all she was frightened for her job. She told me
whatever I felt I had to say to keep my own sanity that was okay with
her. You say what you got to say. I really admired her for that.
Cause it was her whole professional life she put on the line.
Q: So what happened, did you
A: The Dean's name at that time was Brink. Dean of the School
of Social Work. And he talked to me for four hours in front of all
these people.
Q: What people?
A: The lawyers,
Q: Was Barbar there?
A: No, she was, they had us in at different times. He wanted to
come in with us, but Dean Brink would not let him. They said no, we'll
interview her alone.
Q: Let who come in?
A: My husband. They said no we can t do that.
Q: Which was just as good.
A: You bet. And I think the main thing that he asked was what do
you feel towards Barbara. And I said, well I 11 tell ya, I ve loved
a lot of people in my life and by that I mean I ve taken care of a lot
of people. But I said, it's just got to be honest with me, I love
that woman dearly as a friend, as a human being, and the best
companion I ve ever had. And he threw the case out.
Peggy Cook 10
Q: Wasn't that humiliating?
A: Yes it was. It was terrifying. You betch ya.
Q: He threw the case out, he was
A: He didn't fire her.
Q: So he was pretty, maybe more compassionate.
A: Yeah.
Q: So what were you doing in there for four hours?
A: Well, these lawyers were asking questions, and there was some
fellow over there, I don t know who he was, I know he wasn t a lawyer.
I have no idea who he was. They just asked question after question
after question. How do you treat your kids, you know. What is your
husband and your sex life. It was very, humiliating. That s the
word for it. It was a hell of a four hours.
Q: What were they trying to prove.
A: had written a thing that he was trying to prove that
the University of Washington should not hire someone who was a family
destroyer. That's what he wrote. And that's what they were trying to
Q: EXK2S family destroyer.
To
A: That s what they were hoping. HSS. see if they were going to
retain her or not.
Q: And so they basically asked for her to quietly arrangements
A: Yeah, but they didn't "fire her." And they sent him a letter
saying that they saw no reason to terminate.
Q: Did it become public. Was there a scandal?
-l-Vvjiu^h.,
A: It was public in Port Townsend, but it wasn't in Seattle, ri.e-t" 0
Q: But it sounds to me, that you still had people in Port
Townsend that liked you and that you liked.
A; Oh yeah, sure, you bet.
PEGGY COOK 11
Q: It was not
A: I wasn't standing alone.
Q: What kind of people were coming to your aid.
A: All the people whom I had gone to church with prior to that
gals that I bowled with, people whom I had painted for. People like
that. M^XiS Friends of my oldest son and their parents.
Q: When did you start housepainting?
A: Off and on. I'd been painting for 25 years, so off and on
he would run us out of money, I would get a little job, I didn;t
do it steady, you know, I would get a job here and there.
Q: How do you like it?
A: It's really good. I raised three kids that way. I
think it s healthy. Course I had more jobs, I m broke at the point.
Q: You paint the outside then
A: I do both.
Q: Can't stand to paint. So, going back. Did people in Port
Townsend more or less, there were some who were on your side, and
stood up for you. And then Barbara had to go to California, What did
that do to you and Barbara s relationship, and how did you feel about
her leaving?
A: I felt desolate and alone. I really did. But I made my
choice not to get the divorce and not to let her put the kids through
school, I just felt that the kids had to have their sense of family,
where they grew up, that they couldn't survive very well without that.
old
There s SB biblical term I girted up my loins and went on.
Q: And then that was the period of time that your husband
virtually kept you prisoner.
A: That's right
Peggy Cook 12
Q: Did you communicate with Barbara at this time.
A: Yes, but not directly. Because one friend of mine, Gwen, I had
known her 36 years, 35 years.
Q: Is she the one who came to visit you when you were
A: Yes. Barbara would write her and then I would write a letter
and give it to Gwen and she would send it.
Q: How did Barbara take this forced separation and your position?
A: I really don t know. I think that we both knew that was the
end and really the least we knew about the other one, the better
we would make the adjustment. I really think that s how we handled it.
She's with a lady now and they re very happy. I'm delighted about that.
Q: For seven years you hung around the house with your gardening,
never went out, the only person you saw was your friend Gwen and her
children?
A: And friends of my children.
Q: Where were your children at this time?
A: They were in school, they were what ever kids do, you know,
and their friends would be at the house.
Q: What did the children think of this?
A: I really never discussed it with them, really.
Q: They must have known what was going on.
A: Oh sure.
Q: And you don t know.
A: I think it hurt my oldest son alot.
Q: Why
A: Well he was in the Air Forces at that time. And my husband
wrote him a letter and told him, he was in England, and told him
all about his mother, you know. Wonderful. It took two or three
Peggy Cook 13
years after Terry came back to where he ffiSSXS said mother I want to
go on a drive with you. It was very heavy, it was heavy.
Q: So how did your other two children react.
A: I think my younger son grew up with a large emotional problem
because of that. A whole lot. He still has some.
Q: Like what?
A: He s very, it takes alot for him to trust anybody. A whole
hell of a lot. a long time before you would know anything
about him. He spent alot of time defending me to a sense. He never
Jerry is not a fighter, none of my kids really are, they just dont'
do it. But verbally defending me, you know. That's tough on a kid
that s really tough.
Q: Ok, did you ever in time sit down and try to explain this,
what was going on to any of them?
we sat
A: No I don't think so. My daughter at one time aXSXXXK down
and talked, she wanted to know why daddy was like he was. And I
said because mother it like she is. She said what do you mean?
And I said Carrie when you grow up you will understand alot of
things that I can't explain to you . I couldn t. There was no way
I could explain to her.
Q: How old was she?
A; About 14. And I told her about Barbara. I didn't go into the
sexual part there s no point in that unless they ask. I said you
know that I care for Barbara and your dad didn t like that. I said
he
he couldn t stand to share me with anybody, no matter who XX is. You
know for a fact that I can't even kiss my brother in law. There s no
way. I said your daddy is insanely jealous. That's why I'm living
like this. Cause I can t take the stuff that come downs when he
Peggy Cook 14
gets like that. I just can't tolerate it anymore. So she is the one
I talked to.
Q: Did you know at any time, your husband was sexually molesting
any of your children?
A: No never.
Q: You started drinking XgKXH at this time again.
A: Yeah.
Q: Can you tell me about that?
A: The first night and the first time I had a cigarette was at
Barbara s house.
Q: You never had a drink before
A: Or a cigarette
Q: In your life?
A: Never.
Q: Okay go ahead.
A: I don't know, I didn't drink very heavily at all. I came to
Seattle five years ago and began drinking pretty heavy. And then 2ig
years ago I went to AA and I said Hey I think I ve got a problem. And
I no longer drink. Thank God!! Thank somebody.
Q: Would you say you are still close to your kids.
A: Oh yeah sure.
Q: Were they close to your husband?
A: None at the end they really didn t
Q: What did he die of your husband.
A: An an in the brain.
Q: Was he sick for a long time or is that something that just
A: No he had been having headaches for years. Not ill. In fact
he had sued me for a divorce he was going to marry at 27 year old gal
Peggy Cook 15
with two kids. And I said hey that's alright with me you know. Fine
and dandy. And he said, you won't be getting anything, I hope you can
make it. I said what do you mean I won't be getting anything. He says
well you just won't. He says you know your past, you know the whole
guilt trip. And I got mad, and just deep down in my toes I got mad.
And I said wait a minute, I ve been married to you for 32 years and
I m entitled to half of your retirement, and I'm going to get it.
And I fought it. And if I hadn t of fought it, I wouldn t have got
anything because he died the night before the trial.
Q: And so what happened?
A: I got it all. It wasn t much but, I got it.
Q: Especially after years of your supporting.
A: I said that's just not fair, and I won't tolerate it.
his
Q: I want to ask you some more. How did you feel upon death,
what was your emotional response.
A: Well, I had gone camping with Gwen, my good friend that weekend,
because we knew the trial was Monday. And she said come on you need
to get out of town. So she and another gal fried and I went camping
to the ocean. My husband at that time was living in Longview. And he
came back Sunday afternoon.
Q: You were not living together?
A: Oh no!
Q: How long were you separated?
A: Off and on five or six years. He would come home you know
Q: You were in the house while.
A: Oh no, this was after that period of time. I don't think I would
have been that dumb, although I may have been.
Peggy Cook 16
And one the front porch was my youngest son who lived at the home with
me, and my oldest son. I said to Gwen you know is either dead
or paralyzed. And I got out of the car and I said, the same thing to
the boys and Terry said well mama he s dead. Just out of the cold I
just knew. He had died the night before at that woman s house in her
bed.
Q: Are you kidding, oh god. What was she like. Did you ever
get to know
A: Well I met her, I drove down, I had to take care of the funeral
you know and all that stuff. Drove down with my boys, and she phoned
the house and wanted to talk to me. And my son said she s not going
to talk to you and I sat there a minute and I said wait a minute Terry
that s not fair. I said I will go and I will talk to her. And I did.
I really felt sorry with her. But I think she really loved him.
Q: How
A: It's all right. And at least he didn't die alone. He was
with somebody for whatever reason. I spent about fours with her while
she cried and all this, but he and that woman together had run up XS^XX
$18,000 in bills, going to Reno. I had to pay. I got to thinking, they
had just bought a brand new car, you know, all this. And I don t know
several hundred dollars at Sears for her kids and things like that.
I got to thinking, I don't have to pay those. So I went to a lawyer
and I said this is the way it is, I can prove that I m not the Mrs.
Cook that got on those planes, and I'm not going to pay them. And he said
you sure aren't. He wrote one letter, and I never got another bill.
Q: How much did you pay of that?
A: I didn t pay any of it. Not a dime. I didnt pay one single
dime. But, that was really, so his death was a relief. And I felt
Peggy Cook 17
a great deal of sorrow for a life that didn't have more in it than that.
Q: So he died at 72 or something?
A: 73
Q: And what has happened in the in t .
A: He died in March the 11. My sister died
Q: This date
A: Yeah, yesterday, passed me by and I didn t even know it.
Wonderful.
Q: I don t want to remind you.
A: My sister died August 11, of the same year 1973. Two
days later I put her husband in a what do you call it, I got power
of attorney because he kind of went whacko, and he s an alcoholic too.
And I put him there.
Q: Is he still alive.
A: Yeah. And took care of all those , taking care of
funeral bills and all that silly stuff and then the next year I had
a mental breakdown. I got up one morning and began crying and I
couldn't quit^ crying. And my neighbor walked in and said what's wrong
and I just kept crying. And they put in Fairfax over here in Seattle,
and I was there 3 weeks. And they sent me home with all kinds of
pills, tranquilizers, mood elevators, muscle relaxers, you name them.
I stayed home about four weeks and it dawned on me that I was
getting up every morning and walking out on the front porch waiting
for the mail. And I would see Mr. Johnson who was 80 waiting for the
mail, and Mr. , they were all in their 70 s.